Curse

foo · Sep 08, 2006, 08:13 AM // 08:13

The 55 monk build has been used at some time by most of us, but in the meanwhile, it is the main tool of botters and ebay sellers. eventualy, it hurts us more then it helps us, and lets not forget, it is, in a way, an exploit in the game. a mathematical manipulation of skills and items.

So instead of working hard on banning bots again and again, (and in the way, shooting down some innocent players), do something about it. I want to show that we, the players, see that this is hurting our gameplay and wallets more then it helps us, and would rather see the 55 monk go to it's grave. everyone who is with me, please sign here.

here are some suggestions:

1. make the hp loss from two runes of the same attribute not stack. this will automaticly get the minimum hp to 130, and will make 55monking much harder, and with no downside for other players.

2. remove all -50 foci from the game. (or change them to something else).

3. make PS and SBond have a longer recharge time, or make them target only "other ally". (which would be nice, because two players could still form a 55 tank, one being the 55, the other being the monk bonder).

4. find another way, we know you can.

This might not take care of the whole problem, but it could be the first real step taken.

(Mods: please not move this into the sanitarium. I know it's a kind of a suggestion, but it is also an important general game discussion, that I want us to have here).

Mindflash · Sep 08, 2006, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Agreed

The Herbalizer · Sep 08, 2006, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by foo

The 55 monk build has been used at some time by most of us, but in the meanwhile, it is the main tool of botters and ebay sellers. eventualy, it hurts us more then it helps us, and lets not forget, it is, in a way, an exploit in the game. a mathematical manipulation of skills and items.

So instead of working hard on banning bots again and again, (and in the way, shooting down some innocent players), do something about it. I want to show that we, the players, see that this is hurting our gameplay and wallets more then it helps us, and would rather see the 55 monk go to it's grave. everyone who is with me, please sign here.

here are some suggestions:

1. make the hp loss from two runes of the same attribute not stack. this will automaticly get the minimum hp to 130, and will make 55monking much harder, and with no downside for other players.

2. remove all -50 foci from the game. (or change them to something else).

3. make PS and SBond have a longer recharge time, or make them target only "other ally". (which would be nice, because two players could still form a 55 tank, one being the 55, the other being the monk bonder).

4. find another way, we know you can.

This might not take care of the whole problem, but it could be the first real step taken.

(Mods: please not move this into the sanitarium. I know it's a kind of a suggestion, but it is also an important general game discussion, that I want us to have here).

Um nerf 55 monks and all you will see is tons of warrior farmers. Warriors can farm the droknars forge troll cave and there are builds which are very fast too. I guarantee the gold sellers will find another way of farming. May aswell nerf all the farming areas if you cant stop the farmers lol. How about anet just nerf gold making so noone can make gold?

Anet wont nerf 55 hp monks lol.

Please explain how it damages the economy more than it helps people.

Btw your idea sucks and will never happen and has been said tons in the past so expect it to be closed.

mrcake · Sep 08, 2006, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Herbalizer

Um nerf 55 monks and all you will see is tons of warrior farmers. Warriors can farm the droknars forge troll cave and there are builds which are very fast too. I guarantee the gold sellers will find another way of farming. May aswell nerf all the farming areas if you cant stop the farmers lol. How about anet just nerf gold making so noone can make gold?

Anet wont nerf 55 hp monks lol.

Please explain how it damages the economy more than it helps people.

Btw your idea sucks and will never happen and has been said tons in the past so expect it to be closed.

agreed

Paperfly · Sep 08, 2006, 08:29 AM // 08:29

As Herbalizer pointed out, there are Warrior builds that can farm low-yeild areas like Elona and the Drok's trolls simply enough for a bot to run them.

...Consequently, nerfing the 55 won't change the influence ebayers have over the overall economy, since it'll only take a couple of days for thousands of wazzas with generic names to level up. That's a pretty big argument of yours negated right there.

So the question becomes whether we want such an efficient farming build available to the casual player... But honestly, with the overall increase of cash drops in Factions & general ease of making money there, I don't think the Tyrian 55 model is even as relevant as it used to be.

Finally, Protective Spirit is a very important part of PVP. They grumble enough about having to share skill balances with us PVE scrubs - imagine the outcry if we shattered their metagame to nerf a farming build?

Gun Pierson · Sep 08, 2006, 08:32 AM // 08:32

First of all not everybody will agree with you, so the 'we, the players' is a bit over the top.

Next other classes also have solo farm builds, saw a movie of a solo ranger barraging Witman's Folly in no time. Warriors can solo farm too. So If you nerf one solo build exploit, you should nerve them all.

The 55 build is a brilliant piece of skill and insight in the game, gratz to the one who discovered it. I find it fun to play from time to time and it makes my monk more versatile.

Not signed

Shanaeri Rynale · Sep 08, 2006, 08:33 AM // 08:33

I have to agree with paperfly. The 55 HP build is not as prevalent as it was, it's now been superceeded by multiple builds from multiple professions. Best way to solve it, just like trolls or animals, bots should not be fed.

foo · Sep 08, 2006, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Herbalizer

Um nerf 55 monks and all you will see is tons of warrior farmers.

Please explain how it damages the economy more than it helps people.

I assure you warriors will never make the same amounts of gold as bot monks.

by making huge amounts of money and selling it for real $$$, you creat an "upper class" which can buy anything for imaginary amounts, leaving everyone else behind. (you can think of it as if your goverment started printing out cash to give to it's officials).

more gold circulating -> your gold can buy you less.

Caged Fury · Sep 08, 2006, 08:35 AM // 08:35

This issue has been discussed many, many times.

Personally, I don't believe this is an exploit, I think it's a clever build. Using superior runes to reduce health and then using a combination of skills to make one almost invincible...pure genius.

Yes, I do have a 55 monk, mesmer and necro but I rarely farm with them these days. If 55-ing gets nerfed then it makes no real difference to me. The reason why I don't want to see it nerfed it's because of the how the build was put together.

Botters and ebayers are round but they don't affect my gameplay or my wallet, I don't see how they do.

If Anet nerf 55-ing, then botters will just switch to other professions and builds (e.g. warriors) and the nerfing will continue, making it worse for the non-gold selling farmers.

/unsigned

The Herbalizer · Sep 08, 2006, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by foo

I assure you warriors will never make the same amounts of gold as bot monks.

by making huge amounts of money and selling it for real $$$, you creat an "upper class" which can buy anything for imaginary amounts, leaving everyone else behind. (you can think of it as if your goverment started printing out cash to give to it's officials).

more gold circulating -> your gold can buy you less.

I have seen a warrior kill a mob of trolls faster than most 55hp monks i have seen. All they will do is make bot programs for warriors instead of monks. If a warrior can kill trolls faster than a monk then surely they will make gold faster? Warriors can farm both drok and elona which are popular bot locations.

There is very little point in nerfing skills which will have a big effect on pvp when all that will happen is other builds become popular for botting.

O and btw the prices to buy gold are really really low. Surely if it is low prices more will be bought. However, the price of items in guild wars is at an all time low. I have never seen so many weapons sell for virtually nothing. Only items where bidding wars will take place are for the really high end ones but even with botting banned people can buy them. Tons and tons of people have made millions without buying gold.

Xenrath · Sep 08, 2006, 08:41 AM // 08:41

I can see the flamethrowers are being loaded for this one already. Anyway it won't get fixed because the monkbot army uses it. They get banned, no big deal they just buy more copies = more money for NCSoft/Anet. Cynical thinking and I can't prove it but you can't argue the farming army ends up buying more and more accounts to replace the ones banned.

It is arguably an exploit because of the use of 5 Superior Runes. In other words use of two identical ones.

It's not rocket science - Super Runes the idea is you get a benefit (the stat boost) but you're ALSO supposed to get a penalty (the health loss). The more Superior/Major runes you use the more stat boost, but the overall health penalty applies too. Exceptions of course are vigour and absorption.

Now the 55 turns this idea of penalty upside down, deliberately wanting more penalty so it can be turned into a net bonus using PS. That's why I think it's arguably abuse as you're deliberately using what is plainly meant to be a penalty, as a bonus (which comparing to general rune useage, was seemingly not the intent)

Just in case someone brings it up the "superhigh hp monk" is similarly abusing low level/starter armour for that.

There's also the quote from Gaile which suggests Anet are not opposed to farming but they think it's unreasonable/unfair to be able to solo high level areas, but that's another topic.

Gun Pierson · Sep 08, 2006, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by foo

I assure you warriors will never make the same amounts of gold as bot monks.

I solo parts of UW with my warrior as many people before did. Troll cave, gryphs doesn't matter at all. The warrior is almost as good as the monk in solo farming purposes.

foo · Sep 08, 2006, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

...saw a movie of a solo ranger barraging Witman's Folly in no time...

Sure. try to write a bot which does that. try to write a bot that can make it's way to the spider cave. the problem is with zero-skill farming build.

majoho · Sep 08, 2006, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caged Fury

I don't believe this is an exploit, I think it's a clever build.

But you'll have to admit it's a thin line.

In terms of how the game is intended to work I would say it's almost begging for some kind of nerf.

But if Anet thought it was a problem they would have 'fixed' it a long time ago - it would certainly ruin it for a lot of bots.

Xenon64 · Sep 08, 2006, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Quote:

The 55 monk build has been used at some time by most of us, but in the meanwhile, it is the main tool of botters and ebay sellers. eventualy, it hurts us more then it helps us, and lets not forget, it is, in a way, an exploit in the game. a mathematical manipulation of skills and items.

1. why should we nerf a build because its used by bots? other players are using 55hp, too. do u think they will be happy if it is nerfed?
2. it is not an exploit. the skills are put together cleverly.
3. if u nerf 55hp monks u also nerf 55hp elementalists, ritualists, necromancers, mesmers, rangers, derwish, paragon, assasine and warrior

excuse me for my terrible english

/unsigned

The Herbalizer · Sep 08, 2006, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by foo

Sure. try to write a bot which does that. try to write a bot that can make it's way to the spider cave. the problem is with zero-skill farming build.

Bots seem to farm elona and drok troll cave tons and warriors can do it too and possibly faster. Warriors dont just farm the spider cave lol.

Gun Pierson · Sep 08, 2006, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by foo

Sure. try to write a bot which does that. try to write a bot that can make it's way to the spider cave. the problem is with zero-skill farming build.

Might be a lot easier than you think it is.

majoho · Sep 08, 2006, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenon64

3. if u nerf 55hp monks u also nerf 55hp elementalists, ritualists, necromancers, mesmers, rangers, derwish, paragon, assasine and warrior

DUH - I'm fairly certain you can't make a 55 build without using monk as one of your professions.

foo · Sep 08, 2006, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

I solo parts of UW with my warrior as many people before did. Troll cave, gryphs doesn't matter at all. The warrior is almost as good as the monk in solo farming purposes.

Then I bet you can tell that in the uw, solo warrior is much much harder, and require more skill then solo 55.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenrath

...They get banned, no big deal they just buy more copies = more money for NCSoft/Anet...

I was just naively thinking that if enough people would care, Anet would have to reconsider thier opinions about it.

Nexium · Sep 08, 2006, 08:51 AM // 08:51

nerf the 55hp monk and you will soon be bitching why are there no monk's around!

55hp and 600hp is about the onlyway monk's can solo places...